H.—s

1156. A deputation from the Typographical Society waited on Messrs. Whitcombe and Tombs for the purpose of settling the difficulty. Eventually we proposed to submit the whole of the matters in dispute, with the exception of the employment of females, to arbitration. This was declined. The points proposed to submit for arbitration were the proportion of apprentices, and minimum for 'stab, hands. 1157. The Association offered, if the firm would place the girls upon the ordinary terms upon which apprentices are taken, and, when they were out of their time, pledge themselves to put them on ordinary journeyman wages, we would be prepared to discuss the matter with them. This was declined. 1158. At the time Mr. Whitcombe discharged his men for being Unionists he was himself a member of the Master Printers' Association. 1159. Under our rules it is impossible for us to go out on strike until we have submitted the question to arbitration. 1160. I am entirely in favour of an official arbitrator being appointed, with technical knowledge, to deal with disputes. Master A. U. examined. 1161. I am sixteen years of age, and work at Whitcombe and Tombs's, but am not an apprentice. 1162. I was on piecework for some time, and at that 1 averaged 6s. or 7s. per week. Then 1 was put on day-work at ss. per week. I was messenger, and worked generally helping in the shop. 1163. I worked from 8 to 12, and from 1 till twenty minutes to 6, and on Saturdays from 8 to twenty minutes to 1. 1164. I worked a good deal of overtime, I should say for quite four months, and I got 4d. per night for four hours' overtime —that was, from 7 till 10 p.m. Whenever I made a mistake in making up my time I was fined 6d. 1166. Most of the other boys were fined more often than I was. If a person was fined more than once a week, that would show carelessness ; but nearly every week somebody was fined. 1167. I have been ill, and have put it down to overwork. There are plenty of windows round the workroom, but there is not much ventilation. The windows at the side of the buildings are casement-windows. 1168. I have been in my place fourteen months, and I went on the understanding that I was to learn the bookbinding trade. 1169. If I leave my present employment I do not know any place I could go to. 1170. Overtime at the rate I mentioned was compulsory. Master A. V. examined. 1171. I have been in the same situation as the last witness for fifteen mouths. 1172. Two boys were fined there for running round the shop during overtime. When running round one of them knocked down a binder's paring-stone. This made a noise, but no damage was done. For this each boy was fined 10s., or a week's wages for one and a week and a half's wages for the other. During that week the boys worked eleven hours and forty minutes per day, excepting on Saturday, when they worked four hours and forty minutes, and they received no wages. 1173. For overtime I was paid at the rate of sfd. for three hours—the same rate of pay that I received during the daytime. 1174. On another occasion a boy was fined a fortnight's wages, but his father made him leave rather than pay it. 1175. In the year I must have w-orked overtime during at least four months. 1176. There are no regulations or rules for us boys to go by stuck up in the shop. Master A. W. examined. 1177. I can corroborate what the two previous witnesses have said. 1178. I have been ill from overwork. When the window is open to ventilate the room the wind catches me right across the back. 1179. Ido not know what becomes of the fines. I did not know when I was going to work overtime, and when I went I did not know what 1 was going to get for it. John Pearson Cooper examined. 1180. lam a printer employed at Whitcombe and Tombs's. .1 wish to bring before the Commission the system of fines. 1181. The boys, girls, and men are fined alike for very trifling offences. One man was fined Is. for a finger-mark on a book, and a girl was fined 6d. for putting two covers on a pamphlet. 1182. I produce notes of a lot of these fines, the notes being put amongst the wages as representing the amounts mentioned in them, and received by the employes instead of cash. 1183. A boy was fined 6d. for not putting his time on the doc, and another for not having his overtime doc. initialled. Here is one showing that a young fellow was fined £1 for skylarking. He was a young man employed in the shop. I believe it was a case of one young man living to get a ruler from another. The other was getting 7s. 6d. a week, and so he was only fined ss. 1184. These fines have been protested against over and over again, but without any effect. Here is one showing 6d. for talking, and a boy 10s. for skylarking—that was, for throwing a pellet of paper. Another case is where a girl was engaged to do embossing. The firm gave a certain price for a long number —I think 20,000 envelopes—and the work took a longer time than they estimated. They charged her for the extra time it took. I produce the account they rendered her for

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